Jorge Pullin: Okay, so our speaker today young girl real will speak about influence of black valeria quantization and gravitational waves.
Adrian del Rio: Thank you Hello everyone.
Adrian del Rio: First of all, I would like to thank the organizing committee for the invitation to give a talk here the to speak about the world.
Adrian del Rio: So this work was done in collaboration with all these people in the results are polished here our goal in this talk is to discuss the potential that level of astronomy can have in providing us with information about quantum aspects of black holes and in particular of Blackberry 26.
Adrian del Rio: So.
Adrian del Rio: So this is the alternative talk, I will first.
Adrian del Rio: Try to motivate why we believe that gravitational waves could potentially carry.
Adrian del Rio: imprints of Blackberry quantization.
Adrian del Rio: I will then discuss these ideas in the context of begins, then we're going to quantization I will discuss whether the expectation from these.
Adrian del Rio: Proposal for the imprint of Blackberry or quantization on the gravitational waves, I will add that it is possible to get some sort of consequences in In particular, I will discuss to particular.
Adrian del Rio: talents of observations.
Adrian del Rio: In which we could infer the response on the fundamental one for Blackberry area predict by these few.
Adrian del Rio: I will then end the talk by discussing what are the expectations from quantum gravity in this in this matter, I will discuss some of your province in some possible competitions that loop on the gravity.
Adrian del Rio: could think of doing you know to buy more accurate predictions if interested in this topic okay.
Adrian del Rio: So you know to activate this topic, I would like to emphasize first the clothes analogy between a problem that the finding.
Adrian del Rio: signatures of quantum gravity in gravitational waves and the program that was started once in a while ago when people can see the interaction between.
Adrian del Rio: electromagnetic waves and adults, so, as we know, a turning point in development of quantum mechanics came with the fear of the spectrum, you know the study of the electromagnetic radiation emitted are absorbed by matter, and in particular the study of the.
Adrian del Rio: Distinguished specter lines at the merits in the atomic specter was fundamental to reveal the quantum structure of the of atoms and molecules and, in particular it's the script fundamentally the script and the spectrum.
Adrian del Rio: That the atomic in the spectrum is fundamentally quantum sainted completely, as we know, the conception, or how mother atoms and could interact with elastic waist and this observation.
Adrian del Rio: helpful in developing the developing the ideas of quantum mechanics, as we know today now, one could argue that the similar spectroscopy call analysis could be carry out to practicing quantum gravity.
Adrian del Rio: as big as they emphasize some time ago.
Adrian del Rio: In some respects black of behaviors at this is because, on the one hand, we know from classical generativity that uniqueness theorems.
Adrian del Rio: Say that physical states of astrophysical isolated black holes can be fully specified, with a few basic parameters.
Adrian del Rio: These hard, for instance, the area of depression surface and the angular momentum.
Adrian del Rio: On the other hand, we expect.
Adrian del Rio: It is expected that these two parameters will happen the skew the spectrum in the quantum theory, so if this is the case, then the black mass.
Adrian del Rio: spectrum is also expected to be quite test.
Adrian del Rio: So, as the romantic analog.
Adrian del Rio: The quantification of the blackboard mass could change drastically the way blackboards interact one two black holes interact with God doesn't release.
Adrian del Rio: And this will open the possibility of finding qualitative new phenomena in in astrophysics, for instance, can we find on to the backlog social perspective.
Adrian del Rio: This is a reasonable.
Adrian del Rio: What does and distinct possibility and becomes particularly setting these days, thanks to the advent of gravitas over astronomy as we can now confront these expectations with observations with experimental later.
Adrian del Rio: So our goal here would be.
Adrian del Rio: is to a walk us to explore how Blackberry have one decision.
Adrian del Rio: As one of the most these things just buildings and subsequent quantum gravity how Blackberry quantization could leave some improvements in the gravitational wave signal that we detect in our interferometer.
Adrian del Rio: I would like to emphasize, from the very beginning that are abroad is purely from an article.
Adrian del Rio: Regarding only some basic concept of points and some hypotheses that will leave aside for the future in case it is interesting.
Adrian del Rio: The possibility of construction matter what a mathematical we were saying well as he will spaces interaction and toys and so on, so forth, our goal here is to explore whether it is worth thinking about these things, and then later if it is worth it it's worth it, then.
Adrian del Rio: we'll proceed in in in in competing more accurate frameworks.
Adrian del Rio: So the first question that perhaps comes to your mind is.
Adrian del Rio: Either really excellent sentence for quantum aspects of black holes to we are affecting the gravitas whole signal of astrophysical microscopic black holes.
Adrian del Rio: You know, even though area quantization can make a black hole to absorb only.
Adrian del Rio: gravitational waves with our distinguished set of this grid frequencies.
Adrian del Rio: From experimental point of view, this could be totally significant is could be leaving no effect, so why should we expect that this group, this is another plan scale.
Adrian del Rio: Of one astrophysical macros will be blackballed grayson good give us something testing, you know detectors.
Adrian del Rio: We assume familiar notions of quantum mechanics, then you can expect that the waves, the black hole could absorb.
Adrian del Rio: are determined by the platform mass spec.
Adrian del Rio: interested in an activity during the process of absorption small multi master is.
Adrian del Rio: must be governed by the first law blackboard Nick acts.
Adrian del Rio: As a consequence, regardless of the specific field quantum gravity and consideration for macroscopic black holes which sort of satisfy the classical limit their characteristic of sorts of frequencies to be dictated by this equation.
Adrian del Rio: This equation revealed that the energy gap in the.
Adrian del Rio: In the mass spectrum that uses with the blackboard mass, so the bigger the black, what is this one of these characteristic up some some frequencies will be.
Adrian del Rio: Now it turns out, nevertheless, that for solar mass black holes we turn off astrophysical relevance, if one assumes that the parameters of the black holes.
Adrian del Rio: are typically disguised at the landscape in the quantum theory, then this characteristic OPS, or some frequencies light in the universe, it is within the.
Adrian del Rio: Frequency we know current gravitas are within the parameters, so this is why we believe that gravitational waves could potentially carry some imprints of Blackberry of what he says.
Adrian del Rio: To exploring some quantitative degree of detail, these ideas, we will work with the we work out the original proposal by begins time for quantum black holes program developed by me in in later years in this.
Adrian del Rio: Framework the via underline quantization relies on the observation that.
Adrian del Rio: The area of a black race and behaves as an athletic environment in classical do it.
Adrian del Rio: In do these.
Adrian del Rio: Begin standing boast.
Adrian del Rio: This summer, feel wisdom similar conditions from the quantity to infer that the area of the that the horizon area for black holes, who have a discrete the spectrum in the quantity.
Adrian del Rio: using all the arguments he further completed that this spectrum to be uniformly spaced engine suffer from them into quantum of black area of the order of the landscape.
Adrian del Rio: If, on top of this, one what is is our government to induce away, then by using the standard relation between rachael mass in andhra momentum, one finds that the platform is is indeed.
Adrian del Rio: The script based the biggest thing we're going to expect them consists of all possible values of end of work and take from this equation or positive in their ends and send me integrate days.
Adrian del Rio: Because of this nonlinear dependence complicated dependence, with the black of parameters, the spectrum is highly regular non uniform and crowd is will important in the future, discuss.
Adrian del Rio: So, despite of the heuristic nature of these models, the description is reasonable and actually is very easy to deal with to explore terminological consequence, so we will take this model as working hypotheses.
Adrian del Rio: and explore what are its implications in graphic design with physics experimental data is now becoming available and will become available in the future.
Adrian del Rio: So we want to verify with this proposal for quantum black calls is this is compatible with observations we want to verify whether it is correct or not, and this is something that this is the main goal.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: So just because it's a look quantum gravity seminar, I mean just to sort of say that so easier symbol G always going to mean the you know jake little J is the.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: What you're already in this transparency.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: right because it look quantum gravity little Jay has completely different meaning.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: So I just want to make sure that we are on the same wavelength and.
Adrian del Rio: Okay yeah idea here is just a semi into your number and and it.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Also, is related to the angular momentum the orbital angle on that spin angular momentum of the black hole.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: yeah and it has nothing to do with the internal.
Adrian del Rio: Right yeah.
Adrian del Rio: Female.
Adrian del Rio: or labels planet yeah.
Adrian del Rio: yeah no as far as you know, I mean.
Adrian del Rio: To my knowledge is not directly related at least.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: In the last time span is again just so that everybody's on the same wavelength number five.
Adrian del Rio: yeah.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: or a year, when you say that this is a kilo hertz that assumes that delta a is about raw plant in Square, I think you said last week yeah and so you've dealt a for a macroscopic black hole is exponentially surprise to display the plan clint squared, this would not be the killer hoods.
Adrian del Rio: doesn't I will speak about this in a moment okay and.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Other people might be confused at the moment, and so I just wanted to.
Adrian del Rio: Get yeah, so I will repeat this again if one assumes that the black black or Brown is how these critize at the grand scale and one assumes that then these lines of the killers, if not, then this unrealistic, but I will discuss this in a moment in the last six and have the top of it.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Thank you.
Adrian del Rio: you're welcome.
So.
Adrian del Rio: Right, so the thing is that we're interested in studying different political consequences of the of the smoke and since we ain't this in the brain pop source and we can focus on the interaction for black hole of quantum BlackRock racing in a nice in the gravitational wave.
Adrian del Rio: radio transmissions of these of the against this of the black hole because be studying studying using a hamiltonian of these of these for one could consider a the hamiltonian oh fun unperturbed isolated black operation and that we had a small perturbation.
Adrian del Rio: They know the in the interaction with the gravitas on with more.
Adrian del Rio: So, as I said in the beginning, they emphasize, we are attempting here to work to provide an accurate mathematical description, to the problem, but instead to.
Adrian del Rio: To see where we can still get some conclusions out from jenna arguments, for instance, if we assume that quantum blackwell crater behaves as an ordinary quantum mechanical system, whatever the this notion of quantum BlackRock right and he's but the reason that it has.
Adrian del Rio: is unrelated quantum mechanical system, we can think that it will have a hamiltonian with a complete set of against states with associated eigenvalues given by the.
Adrian del Rio: by the mass, but this contest according to the begins and we're going to approach Okay, then what could be interested in studying different relatives transitions between the these Eigen states induced by the interaction of the gravitational wave.
Adrian del Rio: As we know from quantum mechanics because of this interaction do not say that the quantum black hole will no longer be assessment state.
Adrian del Rio: But instead.
Adrian del Rio: I stayed with one different mass but, instead, it will be a linear combination of the Eigen states of the approach of hamiltonian so long as we stay, so long as we consider this as a small database.
Adrian del Rio: So quantum mechanics tell us that this is a linear combination of the agony of the.
Adrian del Rio: amplitude hamiltonian and the coefficients in this linear combination, give us information about the.
Adrian del Rio: So, to give us information about the probability of and the black hole.
Adrian del Rio: In the original state or the priority of finding the black hole in one of the exciting states, in other words quantum mechanics will be telling us that these are non trivial probably do that the black hole does not absorb the insulator this way, and this is the interesting thing about.
Adrian del Rio: about these ideas, because if it is not absorbed then this conditioning printing characters how officer basis.
Adrian del Rio: So the specific body of these read the articles strongly ban on the macroscopic fee of gravity, unfortunately, unfortunately, we lack in full detail but still.
Adrian del Rio: We can use some of their arguments to infer some results in particular.
Adrian del Rio: Assuming familiar vs from time dependent on theory and quantum mechanics you know, there exists information, the rule, which states that.
Adrian del Rio: The absorption probability distribution is peaked around bodies of the final price and mass which differ from the original value in the energy of one one of the incident way.
Adrian del Rio: So i'm on all the energy States present in the biggest same spectrum remember these ones are highly non uniform spectrum.
Adrian del Rio: Only those energy states that satisfy this condition so we'll have a significant of sourcing probability otherwise we're going to assume that these absurd absurd some priority we have well will receive rapidly speak.
Adrian del Rio: For them all and where i'm going to conservation impulsive some constraints or selection rules that as an atomic physics, they restrict the any state of the black hole contract system to whenever the.
Adrian del Rio: whenever it interacts with activities are way more Omega.
Adrian del Rio: The.
Adrian del Rio: In astrophysics particular environment black of merges which I will speak in a moment.
Adrian del Rio: Most of the Venetian generated.
Adrian del Rio: is dominated by the wall portrait mode, so I will focus our attention he all the time in this talk to the eloquent to enable tomorrow.
Adrian del Rio: To sum up, according to this, or what I said in these to slice the summer is that the black the quantum blackwell pricing will be enabled to absorb the incident from different way, more.
Adrian del Rio: or less the corresponding gravitational wave frequency intersects one of the characteristic of sorts of frequencies are in the biggest inspector, which in turn is determined by the first law black on the case because of the semi classical limit in the in the macroscopic reading.
Adrian del Rio: With the battle parameters disguised according to pick them up approach.
Adrian del Rio: So, despite the initial complexity of the spectrum only a small and simple subset of it is really accessible for the black hole in the promo source.
Adrian del Rio: Now there is a question of any of.
Adrian del Rio: The week of this any states in the episodes and aspect of.
Adrian del Rio: It is well known that bathroom is.
Adrian del Rio: About evaporate to the hoarding effect, this means that any states in the spectrum are stable, so that they can as one tennis litigate to lower energy state.
Adrian del Rio: Through the mission of hawking quantum so as a consequence, these specialized in the source inspection will have an effective and as well with this language for the more is expected to increase with black or Asian.
Adrian del Rio: The phenomena of super aliens as it makes the black and white stable.
Adrian del Rio: And the question is that observable face will only exist if this with doesn't make the.
Adrian del Rio: Energy levels in the absorption expect them to overlap, because otherwise the black hole we effectively recover a continuous a spectrum and virtually any graphic designer wait more to be absorbed.
Adrian del Rio: This language is given by the inverse of the lack of decay rate and the black of decay rate can be estimated as the ratio between on the one hand, the average energy emitted over all possible channels and on the other hand, by the total power limited by the black hole.
Adrian del Rio: Both quantities can be calculated using standard arguments and semi classical gravity, in particular, is in the political decay rate.
Adrian del Rio: There are individual calculation by hope.
Adrian del Rio: In doing this calculation, I said, we have to operate over all possible channels, but in practice it is enough to stick to michael's point of fields.
Adrian del Rio: As a contribution to the proclamation from heavier particles is is nickel.
Adrian del Rio: So this language will be a function of the parameters that describe the physical space of astrophysical black holes, namely black mass and lack of spin.
Adrian del Rio: The question of overlapping to assess if there is overlapping or not, and when we have to compare these languages with the.
Adrian del Rio: Energy separation between spectral lines in the source and expect consecutive respect to license the absorption expect.
Adrian del Rio: Using something that's our arguments, it is not difficult to see that the dependency, the function of dependency of quantities with black mass.
Adrian del Rio: goes like this, and this greatly simplifies the problem as the ratio will now depend only on one single parameter is important, in particular, because this means that of the contestants obtained in this particular way with whole.
Adrian del Rio: For both microscopic and microscopy black hole, so these conclusions so there's no need to.
Adrian del Rio: extrapolate to astrophysical black hole to Congress, and we also hold for them as well overlapping will not occur if this ratio is less than one.
Adrian del Rio: The question for overlapping depends on the specific value of alpha.
Adrian del Rio: One considering this month with our priorities are free parameters is a is a retreat.
Adrian del Rio: there's more of the beautiful face the smaller did the.
Adrian del Rio: Energy distance, so this one of the faith these the closer the spectral lines in depth certain spectrum will be.
Adrian del Rio: So, at a certain point, there will be a critical value file called below with overlapping start for its value blacklist being we competed this value of alpha is critical if alpha.
Adrian del Rio: There is all is some here on the slide, it is not very illuminating this formula, so let me give you an example to illustrate the the usefulness of this so suppose we have a black hole with spin cedar Point seven.
Adrian del Rio: This is pastor physically really One scenario, because most women and black holes in banner blackwood measures.
Adrian del Rio: are upset with this range of what these specific value blackwood spin.
Adrian del Rio: For this specific value black of spin it configurable of alpha is given by cedar point four, which is one order of magnitude below the smallest smallest value of alpha has been proposed, using heuristic elements in deleted so for the range of.
Adrian del Rio: alpha values of having proposed for cedar Point seven there will be no overlap.
Adrian del Rio: They have some more interesting picture is given this slide.
Adrian del Rio: Alternatively, instead of facing w blackwood spin we could fix the body of Alpha and study at which value pack of plateaus been overlapping good stuff okay in one considers the smallest than highest value of alpha have been proposed in the literature.
Adrian del Rio: The around the relevant pictures are sold our protein these two figures Okay, as we can see increasing the value of alpha only makes the relevant the ups, we specialize in the system, expect them to increase, relatively speaking.
Adrian del Rio: it's black line here represents one of the characteristic absorption frequencies in the back ends of the spectrum for different a number transitions okay.
Adrian del Rio: In as a function of blackhole speed.
Adrian del Rio: Which is removed the only way on parameter in the problem of overlapping all quantities here, these pictures scaling the same manner with the with the mass so.
Adrian del Rio: The premise is scaling bite these two figures apply for both microscopic and macroscopic black holes, so, in particular, the conclusions of things here we'll also have a microscopic particles, is what.
Adrian del Rio: What the crusade observation of these figures, is that overlapping only starts at very high levels of blackboard speed.
Adrian del Rio: So we conclude what, in particular, beyond 0.9.
Adrian del Rio: We conclude that for regional police of black hole spin and for reasonable values of alpha in the biggest organ of approach.
Adrian del Rio: For quantum black holes we don't find overlapping of these two lines in the absorption expect in this leaves room for searching grab the familiarity of black black area on the season.
Adrian del Rio: For macroscopic so physical classes, whether.
Ivan Agullo: they're young and.
Adrian del Rio: Yes.
Ivan Agullo: Have you mentioned what the thickness of each curve means.
Ivan Agullo: I it's.
Adrian del Rio: yeah it's slightly supplemented with the land we've calculated.
Adrian del Rio: Using this semi classical elements that I described before, thank you for pointing out, yes I didn't mention that, so this language is precisely for each party of Spain and black mass one can compete this language and numerically and one can.
Adrian del Rio: See implemented into these absorption spectrum treatment yeah characteristic of sorts of bunch so we, we see that this language is.
Adrian del Rio: Not that for this specific bodies of alpha not relevant, well, it doesn't make it doesn't induced overlapping until.
Adrian del Rio: Unless you go to be seeing high value supply constraint.
Adrian del Rio: Before discussing the political implications.
Adrian del Rio: I like to mention just the other small comment.
Adrian del Rio: These conclusions about the descriptions of the black hole of sorts inspect only hope, precisely for the absorption spectrum, because we had to both well because of the selection rules imposed by unromantic conservation.
Adrian del Rio: But for this one Dennis.
Adrian del Rio: Anything a spectrum that I mean by hooking where the ACER.
Adrian del Rio: action and any more can actually be admitted, so all the energy states in the biggest enemy spectral are accessible for the problem of for the black hole dedicate.
Adrian del Rio: The full spectrum is complex, as I said, how you read read non uniform grounded and, in particular, the States and di n n plus one day.
Adrian del Rio: Are not consecutive energy stays in the museum spectrum, as sometimes has been claiming illiterate, they are many, many areas states in between.
Adrian del Rio: And so the problem of identifying consecutive energy stays in a museum spectrum is much more complicated than the source in case usually not completed, we found that the existence of many more access will lead us in the Pakistan spectrum.
Adrian del Rio: Including the, together with the language calculated using.
Adrian del Rio: Standard thing, as I said, the technicians in the castle gravity this personal records the.
Adrian del Rio: original proposal already a continuous, how can you miss inspector OK, so the absorption and missing spectra the fair consider, in this sense.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: What is partially me.
Adrian del Rio: Personally, means that there were still some I mean the thing is that we have to do this, we have computer and we have to add more and more, you know, there are infinite.
Adrian del Rio: Energy levels and what we do is to add more and more and to see that as effectively, it tends to record this the full spectrum we don't see I mean we even because we're going to consider all the me some channels.
Adrian del Rio: We didn't get to the computer this parcel boys would be eventually be.
Adrian del Rio: covered by this spectral and that will include that the trees, they can listen, is that it tends to record the music aspect of.
Adrian del Rio: This is something that we just stay with me, our main interest wasn't in this case, but I want to do good it because it has some things in place that the missing perspective so also be discreet as well.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Right so so you're saying that it's partially is not really a restriction you're saying that well, I mean computationally or two.
Adrian del Rio: yeah.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: That we and you're just partially just means the limiting.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: In the limit, you will recover this practice.
Adrian del Rio: Right yeah at least we expect that, because we cannot go no medically to the you know consider all the infinite numbers of transitions but the tendency was was that that it tends to recover at least partially and it's certainly a weight part of the spectrum is is continuous.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Thank you you're.
Adrian del Rio: So I concluded that within the biggest thing we're going to approach this know blabbing, so there is room for.
Adrian del Rio: certain fundamental ingredients are ways we find at least to upsell or channels.
Adrian del Rio: In the coalescence of two black holes, which could give some information about the discrete nature of of the absorption of spectrum of black holes.
Adrian del Rio: And particular about the Blackberry at what they say so, one of these towns is associated to the ring law states and the other tenants as city in spite our face, I will discuss first the rundown case okay.
Adrian del Rio: So, as you probably know, the most states is the final state in the qualities of two black holes in is characterized.
Adrian del Rio: By an exponential decay in bringing in the waveform okay.
Adrian del Rio: This behavior can be accurately described with a perturbed care, Dr meeting with in classical.
Adrian del Rio: classical generativity predicts that if some gravitas on perturbation.
Adrian del Rio: The stars, the lighting of a black hole it can potentially excited it was around most.
Adrian del Rio: These normal modes.
Adrian del Rio: are already made that are on the right wing and they also played with well with a discrete set of well defined frequencies.
Adrian del Rio: No makeup simulations so that the creation of two black holes excited physically these questions are most for the financial a call and.
Adrian del Rio: Also basis in particular point out that this behavior can be accurately accurately be described with this characteristic of certain frequencies of the case.
Adrian del Rio: In 2016 it was proposed that they will not see now to isolate in the quantum theory with the fundamental frequency associated with the fundamental area transition in the biggest aspect in this scenario, it was.
Adrian del Rio: But in this scenario, the room not seeing that would drastically different from the classical prediction of general activity and therefore it was acted detection of to.
Adrian del Rio: win on frequencies compatible with classical generativity to ignore frequencies as as the two different lachlan space for the Green and black hole.
Adrian del Rio: The direction of the news of these two random frequencies could be used to easily roll out the uniform area quantization proposal by taking a stand and OK.
Adrian del Rio: Now, the thing is that this is the person is not really justified because this dream of bringing the waves are associated to perturbations of the end of the lightning and not to perturbations of the local geometry of the race.
Adrian del Rio: So begins, then uniform area one decision in Brisbane so not affect the frequencies of the Women on Waves.
Adrian del Rio: Now some years later years.
Adrian del Rio: Carl so forth, and clear man consider the idea that black hole could absorb only those frequencies compatible with area quantization by Pakistan mocha as critical periods and.
Adrian del Rio: What they did was to consider the problem of the typical burning blackbird with the theory which one consumer scattering.
Adrian del Rio: Of course, in pockets with a continuous ban the frequencies, but they can they introduced some effective potential of the equation, with the idea of mimicking these behavior of biggest animal.
Adrian del Rio: So what they found is that some frequencies could be filtered by the way these effective revenue potential of the pricing and the rest will be dispersed by the black hole quantum Christ and effective quantum price so ideas to test the black look.
Adrian del Rio: At quantitative hypotheses and motivated with by these last observation.
Adrian del Rio: So, as I said, black or quasi mammals are excited are on the light when something part of the like most of the energy carry out babies.
Adrian del Rio: carried by these waves provides to infinity the words of detectors but still a significant fraction provides in was to the black hole Christ, and where, according to generativity it will all the energy will be fully absorbed.
Adrian del Rio: Your service and frequency of these waves is dominated is remarkably monochromatic it is dominated by the quarter per mole is equal to inequality, as well as the fundamental tone in the course in our movie spectrum of the calcium.
Adrian del Rio: utilization frequency, is what the finance I say, and it can be blood as a function of blackhole spinning this field, so you can see, as compared to the characteristic of certain frequencies what these are citizen frequency looks like okay.
Adrian del Rio: So, because of quantization.
Adrian del Rio: If these are also some frequency and because of all the elements that i've presented before if the socialism frequency does not.
Adrian del Rio: match one of these characteristic bodies of absorption, then the absorption produce and he suspected to be highly suppressed.
Adrian del Rio: And what we find precisely, is that these also some frequency all intersex One characteristic of sorts of frequency for so many specific bodies of black will speak.
Adrian del Rio: For the rest of black spins the absorption previous divisions would be negligible so as a result, the necessarily incoming gravitational wave.
Adrian del Rio: So then start providing adwords to infinity and once it, which is the gravitational potential barrier, where it was first originated a portion of this wave will be transmitted to infinity but still another fraction will be scattered back to us the quantum rise.
Adrian del Rio: And the process will repeat over and over and in time again.
Adrian del Rio: As a result, and external observer will see an initial cleanser will first, followed by a set of echoes replica of these initial burst with increasingly more empty bottles, in other words, everything how detector to the tech away from these gap of these for.
Adrian del Rio: The possibility of detecting echoes in general observations was initially conceived in the context of exit the company of this as a way to.
Adrian del Rio: discuss discriminate potency of black combat stars from actor black holes through currently have some basis, but we are pointing out here is that echoes who also be received will also be detected for some specific black holes as a consequence of uniform.
Adrian del Rio: Uniform area quantization.
Adrian del Rio: For something specific or lack of space.
Adrian del Rio: What about the question is about the champions of these echoes for detecting purposes.
Adrian del Rio: The value of these aptitudes.
Adrian del Rio: depends on several factors they depend on the amount of energy that fell in the cellophane to the black quantum horizon.
Adrian del Rio: On the absorption properties of this quantum crisis in any particular internal this is determined by unknown microscopic physics and also by the by the term disability of the gravitational potential very.
Adrian del Rio: Reasonable estimates indicate that the attitude of the first ECHO could be as large as the initial goals are with first.
Adrian del Rio: point is that.
Adrian del Rio: Observation of equals.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Can we go back for a second lesson so.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: The the mechanism here about I mean basically the statement is that if, in fact, the there is no overlap between these frequencies, then that frequency would not be absorbed right.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: yeah Okay, also in this diagram.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: The red car should also articulate but you're saying that.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: thickness is so small that one can see is that is that what you're saying.
Adrian del Rio: No, you can have bigness but I neglect than that, but the thickness only means that the gravitas in this instance wave will have a distribution in frequency.
Adrian del Rio: It is expected that this this division, he speaks around this classical value.
Adrian del Rio: And the effective for the effect of having a thickness will mean that so even in this case, for instance for cedar point for something if you have a thickness that minus to read these two values, this means that some gravitas of things in the Web will be absorbed.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Right so.
Adrian del Rio: Sorry assault.
Adrian del Rio: This will translate into a decrease Well, this is actually another fact okay these thanks for pointing out this will imply a reduction of the amplitude.
Adrian del Rio: Of the these and other factors play into account for the victory, the analysis so.
Adrian del Rio: Good It is this is all important.
Adrian del Rio: for doing accurate competitions so far i'm just relying on the qualitative picture, because this is the first thing to do is to see what it.
Adrian del Rio: What it is a qualitative difference will get better procedure but you're right that the effect of having some effective with here, implying that because of several uncertainties.
Adrian del Rio: William blake a reduction of these adults, the amityville vehicle could be even less than or what i've said.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Okay, thank you so that was very clarifying but the second thing is that also, if I had a model of black hole just literally like what mocha now, and they can sign set right.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Then the then the statement would be that everything is nothing will be absorbed right, I mean if you are in the frequency, which is not overlapping.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: then nothing will be up shop.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: And therefore reflection is everything is reflected is this idea, in that case.
Adrian del Rio: But we might everything.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: that the incidence of a will be reflected entirely yeah yeah.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Absolutely, to be the same, but then in the in the in the answer okay so here you are saying that that may not happen by just doing some theological model of what is causing the reflection.
Adrian del Rio: You mean in this paper wife kind of support and Mr justin yeah so what they did, is that I mean the thing is that what they said, is a continuous battle frequencies and what they study is the egg will disperse if.
Adrian del Rio: What they used to full year decompose the these these persuade and they found, I mean the thing is that this is.
Adrian del Rio: affected by trying to mimic the the biggest same kind of approach is it may not necessarily it was an adult proposal.
Adrian del Rio: But the thing is that what they found is that more or less there were some boys some I mean I was so actually a picture of these in in a later slide so maybe we can discuss this later.
Adrian del Rio: OK OK OK, I will go on this too late okay Thank you so.
Adrian del Rio: Right, so the observation, so are our bodies that.
Adrian del Rio: Observation of equals from coming from buying blackwood mentors something alert you know friends of black will spin could be used to the tech or sorry to test the black or a white uniform area.
Adrian del Rio: So the black radio quantity hypotheses as predicted by Booker mega Santa Monica and, in particular, these will also be used to measure or two plays bounce.
Adrian del Rio: On the fundamental one or black rate, the percentage of this is because, if we manage to get equals, for us, increasingly large range of record speed these distance between.
Adrian del Rio: Well, this week of of the windows of echoes could be gives you the information, all of these brands that have.
Adrian del Rio: Now our ability to detect these echoes from my experience on point of view.
Adrian del Rio: strongly depend on our capacity to produce faithful templates for the waveforms.
Adrian del Rio: There are some existing fanatical waveforms which include echoes and for this phonological families of waveforms so bayesian analysis have on the lack of data, do not find.
Adrian del Rio: Evidence of echoes, at least with Abdullah as loud as 0.101 to the the original singer big we actually expect equals from this region from these elements much lower than this, but this already because of on the on that.
Adrian del Rio: They then important thing is that observational constraints will improve considerably in the future.
Adrian del Rio: You know, with three generation detectors around based detector, such as the telescope or the space meats, and this.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Get get adjusted delis like is what the bands mean the pink of the red pants.
Adrian del Rio: yeah the red pants is so this is the intersection between the.
Adrian del Rio: oscillation frequency of the incoming gravitational waves from the ring bouncing up with the with, so the fact that you have a effective with coming from hogan.
Adrian del Rio: grapple decay rate means that the intersection of these red line and the and the characteristic of some some frequencies it's not just a point, but rather an effective way, so this is more or less a representation of that.
Adrian del Rio: Is this clear or choice is the fact that.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: You just plotted it for some.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: values rather than is that I mean, why is it there, no, no such column between you know.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: In the in between regime regime sort of say man.
Adrian del Rio: I because the red line does not intersect.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: But I said.
Adrian del Rio: Okay yeah.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Okay yeah Okay, but.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: that's all I think again my confusion on the same one that the red line itself a sickness, that you are ignoring hear.
Adrian del Rio: me, I mean the customer position is, is that it will have to be.
Adrian del Rio: well defined, but they can be uncertainties and also from quantum mechanical uncertainties in here and uncertainties, you may have an effective with in that case you have to, I mean the picture is different, this is just the first store they say they know their contribution to the.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: yeah Thank you yeah.
Adrian del Rio: So, as I, as I was saying, obviously we saw concerns will improve considering the future with feature 3D.
Adrian del Rio: detectors The idea is that we could add, in principle, at least.
Adrian del Rio: test the Blackberry of quantities and hypotheses the uniform area quantities and hypotheses.
Adrian del Rio: That, so this is regarding the the window, the second test to the second way to test the Blackberry at one of the season hypotheses that we propose is related to these final phase.
Adrian del Rio: They could have just how i've seen in these phase can be well approximated by department and information, you know, a week feel loved us in the expansion of Francis waiters.
Adrian del Rio: During most of these better than to combine objects remain separated at distance much larger than the sourcing radios so.
Adrian del Rio: The gravitational field is weak and so an expensive around for the space, I mean justify.
Adrian del Rio: To lowest or then one can assume that to combine objects, the two masters has been point like moving on and Tony trajectory infinite space.
Adrian del Rio: The system its gravitational waves leave leave it by essence all about our formula and with a frequency distribution beat around the angular velocity of the INSPIRE.
Adrian del Rio: The missing of these within the positive and formulation the mission of these clubs are ways back react on the orbital evolution.
Adrian del Rio: live in the very nice fighter, and eventually the core essence and important thing for for for this discussion is that within department and formalism The spiral dynamics is driven by energy conservation in.
Adrian del Rio: The contribution from.
Adrian del Rio: Other effects in astrophysical realistic compact objects is encoded within this formalism inhale there wasn't a ton and others these higher the contributions amount to corrections to the gallery this outward facing the width.
Adrian del Rio: One funny side effect that concerns was is a presence of the black hole crisis.
Adrian del Rio: The black equation, the presence of a black hole present can potentially affect the grams of our signal through the effect of what is called a standard heating, let me briefly explain this to.
Adrian del Rio: To make this into to put things into context, so if one considers that one of the two objects, is a black hole, then this black hole.
Adrian del Rio: will be immersed in a sea of gravitas arbitrations that alters the gravitational field of I would be good to me okay.
Adrian del Rio: These perturbations induce some quote about the formations of the Christ and surface and with sincerely act as dice very much like Tyson viscose newtonian bodies, the point is that the absorption of energy, the flow of energy and our went.
Adrian del Rio: Through the horizon by these perturbations back react on the binary evolution and these results in a correction to the face of the growth is how words immediate as compared to the live, you know the contribution in these four awesome their information.
Adrian del Rio: This way i'm going to stay or kidding it's not nice day i'll keep them because the work done by these forces by silly is used to extract energy from the.
Adrian del Rio: From the black hole so that is transmitted to the orbital reason but part of the energy is lost or dissipate into a crease it is analogous to get him.
Adrian del Rio: In the newtonian viscous fluid and.
Adrian del Rio: The point is that absorption of energy, and I remember when to buy the reason.
Adrian del Rio: Why much smaller than the mission to infinity.
Adrian del Rio: It can still be important.
Adrian del Rio: Because the structure of the week gravity which signal from the noise see the doctor output using matter during the next requires.
Adrian del Rio: Knowledge of the overall evolution to very high accuracy and it turns out that the subject of theater kidding can be estimated and it already contributes to.
Adrian del Rio: 2.5 points to an order as compared to the you know the contribution, in other words that are cheating can significantly affect the orbital dynamics or finding mentors, especially for cms reasons files.
Adrian del Rio: Now.
Adrian del Rio: If one takes into account quantization of the horizon, the existence of a Chris well because of the orbiter angular velocity.
Adrian del Rio: During most of these panel is very low, and because he created this and always their frequency is the feminine by these are the angular velocity this pregnancy will be smaller than the lowest absorbs on privacy in the absence of spectral in the bigger and bigger.
Adrian del Rio: So, as a consequence, the the absorption of these waves is expected to be highly surprised the most part of the spine.
Adrian del Rio: This is this this analog to the familiar frequency festival.
Adrian del Rio: That one facing the quarter effect and this causes a change in the orbital evolution with respect to the classical GR prediction.
Adrian del Rio: So, the conclusion is that the.
Adrian del Rio: area keating one because of quantization the confusion of day of kicked into the face of gravitational waves I suspected to be negligible, at least when most part of things by.
Adrian del Rio: One constant news updates from erotically by introducing by hand and effective parameter camera in front of the pedal in front of the classical contribution of a look at.
Adrian del Rio: This parameter gamma is frequency dependent, it will be, it will be one whenever the frequency of the gravitational wave intersects one of these characteristic of sorts of frequencies and absorption spectrum, while it will be negligible in in the rest of cases.
Adrian del Rio: The phrase over absorption of course.
Adrian del Rio: For the minimum value of this quantity and is determined by the unraveling of the horizon.
Adrian del Rio: And the thing is that, because the inspired process as it proceeds as it involves any strings the other angle of listening will increase, and so the frequency of the grid is how would sing I will also increase their activity and at a certain point, these thresholds will be rid.
Adrian del Rio: So, because of the nature of the absorption spectrum once it rescue is treated as a source and resonances will be expected.
Adrian del Rio: Whenever these whenever the gravitational wave frequency intersects one of the allowed after some bugs.
Adrian del Rio: So I started so that little kitten is expected to contribute for a specific set of orbits during during the trial.
Adrian del Rio: In particular, the direction of these orbits and the relative separation with us information about the fundamental quantum or Blackberry and the ability to grow, this could be used to this to provide another way to test the black radio quantization.
Adrian del Rio: With these by.
Adrian del Rio: So entrepreneurs legal implications of that have discussed so far rely on the biggest and we're going to have uniform a quantization.
Adrian del Rio: This is interesting, as a first approach the problem but remember that this is forest so and, in particular, from a practical point of view.
Adrian del Rio: The possibility of detecting all these implications requires accurate competitions of the waveforms so we really need to go via in we attend me if we really expect to take something.
Adrian del Rio: One may one day what cinema logical implications were confined from our fee of quantum gravity built on first principles from quantum gravity several can be so I would like to discuss what are the expectations that we respect from from this framework.
Adrian del Rio: So in subconscious to the.
Adrian del Rio: PIC and then we can have quantization.
Adrian del Rio: grantee the standard area spectrum is not equally spaced.
Adrian del Rio: One could estimate what is the typical.
Adrian del Rio: These criticisms scale of the area and.
Adrian del Rio: By by estimating the age gap between consecutive a comparison respect.
Adrian del Rio: This can be done using so.
Adrian del Rio: Number three techniques synthetically and it turns out that the area gap in the spectrum decreases experientially with the platform area, so in stark contrast to the uniform.
Adrian del Rio: To the biggest thing we're going to approach.
Adrian del Rio: The description scale here of the blackboard area is not that the landscape, but rather at a much smaller scale, the scale, much more than this.
Adrian del Rio: So for macroscopic black hole so as a result, one expects and almost continues the spectrum and therefore not equals could be expected at least a priori England, this whole opposite basis.
Adrian del Rio: But the story may not necessarily in here and I will, I would like to discuss these other features.
Adrian del Rio: You know as the theory of quantum gravity is much sweeter than big sm we're going to approach.
Adrian del Rio: is not surprising that more interesting features arising the respect.
Adrian del Rio: In particular, so, for instance in one piece is the area of the black hole when can compute the number of micro State that is compatible with these villages in some number theoretic techniques.
Adrian del Rio: This is the black of the Tennessee spectrum.
Adrian del Rio: For microscopic interrupted in black holes.
Adrian del Rio: Predictions from groupon gravity or sensually summarized in these two fingers at least for the purpose, I want to discuss.
Adrian del Rio: The grocer have service and here is that.
Adrian del Rio: The black of this Tennessee spectrum of accountability so it's an interesting.
Adrian del Rio: panel structure which is periodic in the black area.
Adrian del Rio: So instead of considering the area between consecutive in palace in the respective one may take an average point of view and consider.
Adrian del Rio: The.
Adrian del Rio: The area copy to consider between consecutive pan peaks in the spectrum, this is justified because.
Adrian del Rio: The entropy.
Adrian del Rio: is expected to win so in the black hole is to observe and tinker with this word irreversibly, then the entropy so the increase, but it turns out that the entropy can only increase in in this good steps.
Adrian del Rio: So.
Adrian del Rio: One thing is these point of view, then the effective expectancy consists of seeds of our own area levels uniformly distributed and with given effective length.
Adrian del Rio: So in this particular sensors on grab these recovering the effective.
Adrian del Rio: Uniform area quantization as predicted by biggest animal going off with a given specific value of Alpha and also it is able to record the.
Adrian del Rio: black hole decay rate as printed from semi classical considerations in this particular sense in this in this picture echoes could be expected for microscopic black holes in the quantum world and, with this done that earlier beta proposed.
Adrian del Rio: Now.
Adrian del Rio: From a physical point of view, we are actually interested in.
Adrian del Rio: We are actually interested in in macroscopic black holes and the question is whether this.
Adrian del Rio: be a constructor good persist for last area basis.
Adrian del Rio: Using some statistical methods by radium yes and your concluded that these periodic structure tends to disappear as the black hole becomes macroscopic if this is the case then there's no well no imprints of Blackberry of one system could be expected in in observations.
Adrian del Rio: Now it turns out that this is a twist in the story.
Adrian del Rio: The point is that.
Adrian del Rio: The promo of content, this number of microsoft's compatible with.
Adrian del Rio: The brand content maker states compatible with like even micro state was restricted only two non rotating isolated crisis.
Adrian del Rio: For master trigger point of view, however, we are actually investing in black holes, we have a non vegans and we'll spend this because most virulent black holes have served in banner black and Moses have speed, on the other hand.
Adrian del Rio: During the process of sort of season, we must consider transitions which involves extensive angular momentum it turns out that these conclusions.
Adrian del Rio: completely ignore the Co producer, so the question is could this be an instructor still amounts for macroscopic black holes you the full transparency spectrum is calculated, including but isn't.
Adrian del Rio: Well, some recipes have been given as far as we know, to do the accounting for the thing care.
Adrian del Rio: routine care horizons, but, to our knowledge, no detail results have been provided this is one of the open questions that.
Adrian del Rio: I wanted to introduce for.
Adrian del Rio: for discussion.
Adrian del Rio: But it is also interesting to master that.
Adrian del Rio: Another.
Adrian del Rio: Proposal for the operator within preppy has been given the researcher.
Adrian del Rio: What makes this proposal interesting in our in our problem is that it predicts indeed and equally spaced a respected in agreement with a big incentive.
Adrian del Rio: And with a specific value of of of alpha that they mean by the problem it's brand.
Adrian del Rio: Are noisy sold that forthcoming gravity our observations could be just to confirm or to rule out this proposal for the operator, and in fact gravity's have observations, could be used to measure or to place bands on the permits proud.
Adrian del Rio: So if I have discussed possible signatures of quantum gravity in the Center with through grant is how it goes, but I haven't mentioned anything about very good, what is the status of wonder about the with regard to Title kitty let me recall again the first roadblock or mechanics.
Adrian del Rio: I was mentioning that the biblical parameters were democratize at the plan scale, then one finds to be called scale of the bigger frequency scale can be measuring the likability go into parameters.
Adrian del Rio: Even though no one knew where the one predicts and almost continuous area spectrum if i'm remind them is is still one test.
Adrian del Rio: At the plant scale then once once we still predict a critical for the absorption spec, in particular the obsession spectrum to look like this figure here, even a fixed value blacklist been.
Adrian del Rio: There will be a minimum value of frequency that must be over past for the blackboard to observe things in the car with a very different way, more but, once this dress code is written, because the areas spectrum is almost continuous the absorption spectrum will be continuous.
Adrian del Rio: So, the conclusion is that we're going to grab the could still affect the greatest and I will see not doing these file through the effect of it, although this could be this will be independent of how black radio is context dependent on the model of California when they say.
Adrian del Rio: So I would like to end with some with a couple of slides mentioning in which what commenting in which other ways quantum gravity could contribute in providing more accurate predictions.
Adrian del Rio: To to the to the waveform.
Adrian del Rio: In the context of black opportunities in theory what important role.
Adrian del Rio: wonder, an important role is played by the boundary conditions have one master that one needs to impose when solving the dynamical equations that govern linear perturbations around are given a Co packer.
Adrian del Rio: In classical generativity one simply impulses purely in going waves at the pricing because.
Adrian del Rio: By definition, the horizon cannot Scott anything but in this framework if the quantum black of Christ, and he said well to scatter so we have this on with modes, one has to drastically change these boundary conditions.
Adrian del Rio: The specific profile, the specific frequency distribution of these outgoing most at the horizon.
Adrian del Rio: To be calculated by completing the transition elements of the interest in Hamilton.
Adrian del Rio: and for this we need the macroscopic theory of gravity for doing this specific calculation, so the question is can look quantum gravity provide the details of this calculation.
Adrian del Rio: Following the analogy with the.
Adrian del Rio: Electronic interaction, one could expect that the dominant contribution to the company interaction will be given by the portal for a moment approximation so.
Adrian del Rio: It will be interesting to see if something of quantum gravity like look on the web, we could give us some specific details.
Adrian del Rio: about this frequency distribution, because if we argue in this, then we can solve this equation with these effective boundary conditions and study, what does, what is the.
Adrian del Rio: Exact way from predicted by.
Adrian del Rio: This.
Adrian del Rio: fee of one to read, and this will be contracted we observations.
Adrian del Rio: A second approach, perhaps, is more as more inspired to what is done in move on to cosmology Okay, one could alternatively derive some effective.
Adrian del Rio: quantum great additional access equations Lena raise them and try to reproduce some effective reggie Miller equation okay.
Adrian del Rio: This is in the spirit of what are the so forth, and Kevin do in the original paper with the difference that now, these effective potential will be the thurman from first principles.
Adrian del Rio: In this, this is precisely about what you were mentioning this is the picture what they did was to consider an ebook effective potential a double body potential at the horizon.
Adrian del Rio: Because they knew that these kind of effective potential could be able to filter some frequencies and disperse the rest.
Adrian del Rio: So it will be interesting to see if something is going to grab the group is able to predict some something like this, some effective potential at the price.
Adrian del Rio: If so, then when could.
Adrian del Rio: impose the same boundary conditions and Eric quantization would be included in the information more information about a position we've been calling in this effective potential.
Adrian del Rio: So I will finish with some simply by summarizing the key points of this talk to emphasize why I wanted to emphasize that.
Adrian del Rio: You study of the interaction between black holes into the sound waves.
Adrian del Rio: could be, and there are chances that it will be helpful to reveal quantum aspects of black of black holes in particular we say the the following picture we assume that, if we assume that black holes amid a quantum descriptor there's over 139 some you make your space.
Adrian del Rio: And if we assume that this kind of Julian has a complete set of again states with alien values that don't mean by the uniform landscape area quantization then we concluded that there is basis to expect some imprints of Blackberry or quantity cigarettes or physics.
Adrian del Rio: In particular, we mentioned, so we noticed that level of echoes and suppressed that are getting done in spinal cord we signed somebody up on the season from with the fundamental quantum black or black layer will be message, or at least to play sponsoring this.
Adrian del Rio: APP also.
Adrian del Rio: I tried to emphasize the importance that.
Adrian del Rio: detecting these imprints is only possible if we have accurate calculations of the waveforms accurate calculations do require details of the microscopic block of degrees of freedom and in particular the way they interact with the verizon with the greatest on the field.
Adrian del Rio: So look on the gravity several candidates for 20 years and I wanted to.
Adrian del Rio: keep some possible ideas of how do you guys, which are important these things if you're interested, how would you proceed in with the calculus and with this I finished with my token, I thank you for your attention.
Jorge Pullin: or any questions.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Adrian just break the silence, then I think I would like to understand more about this title heating, because, as you pointed out.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: There it is sort of the area quantization the precise area quantization is not that important but you know angular momentum quantization is what is going to be.
Adrian del Rio: yeah so right stressful, for this is the first call important would be.
Adrian del Rio: here.
yeah.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: yeah so so that that's because you're saying that even if delta is arbitrary small there's still this which is delta J.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: And that is just yeah we look quantum gravity also that should be one test.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: The usual way, so how would this affect me okay in Boston or Donald calculations, everything is supposed to be just a point particle right.
Adrian del Rio: The living on the contribution, yes, but then you add some with the bonus structure to these particles encoding the information on the characters on the actual group doesn't feel.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Exactly Thank you so therefore what you're saying here is that the multiple structure will not be given just by the Court, the good multiple structure, but in fact there is a slight correction, there is that is that what you're saying basically because of this.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: i'm i'm mark the affiliation or what.
Adrian del Rio: So what kind of yeah well yeah yeah yeah so the thing is that the black hole is not really kind of be described with a simple care, but what do you have the people have been studying.
Adrian del Rio: or so on, and all the people is that you have the form horizon and when you have a care black hole with a bolt on its surface and rotating.
Adrian del Rio: Well, part of the energy is transferred to the orbital most yeah so you can think of.
Adrian del Rio: You can think of this as a contribution from the multiple to multiple a certain of the black enterprise and I guess yes.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: I see so, but you may not be familiar, but maybe some other people in the gravitational waves community can help us.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: So.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: In this post retirement calculations it, I mean they often consider the current multiples but then they use the multiples which are really define it infinity as opposed to the horizon once and I was wondering if, in fact, the effect you're saying is going to be comparable.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: To the correction.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: That will come by just looking at the horizon multiple moments, in other words, forget our quantum gravity and just look at the classical problem.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: But us horizon multiple moments in place of the multiple moments of third defined at infinity.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: It wasn't on the calculation, so that would actually you know we'll do some contribution.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: which may be already different from what the standard contribution is and usually I thought that those differences already small enough and then this quantum thing.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: The additional content correction that is coming because of the heating title heating deformation that may be.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Completely negligible i'm always worried about compared to even the classical contributions so if anybody else who knows about most non newtonian calculations has some words of wisdom here is to what is done, that would be very helpful.
Adrian del Rio: yeah I mean you gotta say this from from the presentation.
Adrian del Rio: yeah from the presentation theory, you can drive these things i'm not so now, I think, is your eye that these things are all fine will affect infinity I think so, and nuts or not, but you can also describe this process using cloud producing fee.
Adrian del Rio: federal regretting all these were approached by persona about the the calculate thing they the follow it before focused on the horse i'm not Sir now okay Okay, so it would be interesting in in discussing in more detail for the answer now.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: So we should discuss this with the way people yeah I think I think we should.
Jorge Pullin: Virginia.
Eugenio Bianchi: yeah hi everyone, thank you for this.
Eugenio Bianchi: yeah you're nice talking, I have a question about the perspective on degeneracy so the energy spectrum yeah so.
Eugenio Bianchi: If one if one starts from the formula for the entropy one would conclude that the gap between energy levels is not blank Ian is not a.
Eugenio Bianchi: Blank energy or drop something proportion to the blog called mass about black called mass times exponential of E to the minus mass square over mass plants question.
Eugenio Bianchi: Okay yeah so if one takes that into account, one would say that is making same kind of model can not make sense only if one says that there's a huge degeneracy we gaps.
Eugenio Bianchi: In So my question is is this huge degeneracy playing a role, I see our last like 23 that you are really pointing out that.
Eugenio Bianchi: One can distinguish between.
Eugenio Bianchi: The separation between gaps in the separation between energy levels, so I was wondering if.
Eugenio Bianchi: Somebody.
Eugenio Bianchi: Really relies on the existence of this gaps with a blank and separated or raw.
Eugenio Bianchi: If it relies on the description, so the spec.
Adrian del Rio: It depends on the screeners of the spectrum, but I will yeah okay i'm not i'm not aware of the finger pointing out, maybe we should discuss in more detail, but I would have expected that if you have well, I mean the thing is that okay.
Adrian del Rio: The thing is, we go, so let me see if I understand your question correctly you're saying that you're pointing out what I was saying before that important is not about area transitions but any transitions is what you're pointing out.
Eugenio Bianchi: yeah energy transitions and the brightness so lines.
Eugenio Bianchi: being associated to the degeneracy progression right, and so, if you go back to the very beginning, you were about summarizing the back end same kind of model.
Eugenio Bianchi: And I would say that bacon bacon seen what kind of model can make sense only fits supplemented with the fact that each one of these lines as a huge degeneracy yes.
Adrian del Rio: Yes.
Adrian del Rio: Well, I mean this.
Adrian del Rio: This is true, but what I think, so this is what is the implications of these for for this.
Adrian del Rio: So what is the.
Adrian del Rio: I mean, in principle.
Adrian del Rio: So i'm not totally understanding what is the point, so you saying that the number of micro, so the thing is that in Vegas i'm knocking off.
Adrian del Rio: They do some estimates of of calculating the salary, the entropy and of course it's a big number, but what is the exactly the independent on see So what is the implication for the assuming that this is not the correct answer some fragrance or something I mean.
Ivan Agullo: I think that the answer to genius yes, because this transitions you know they they hit the probability of transition depends, of the degeneracy.
Ivan Agullo: me golden rule.
Ivan Agullo: So, yes they're phenomenal logical level it's not only important what energy levels levels access also the beginning, so you have both energy levels exactly so jr was was.
Adrian del Rio: Right okay.
Adrian del Rio: So this is like okay.
Adrian del Rio: So this is like okay right, so you look on ready for instance he's actually one of the reasons that we.
Adrian del Rio: already done, but the idea for currency in this area gaps is because it is more likely for the black hole to the key to this.
Adrian del Rio: body of the black or area than to this one, because they're much more, it is more likely for the system to to stay in this.
Adrian del Rio: microphone so in these micro steps in you know what I mean, I think this is precisely what you're saying that the quality of the K, so if level is not, at least for these microscopy black hole the black hole is more likely to the key to this micro state.
Adrian del Rio: than to these micro said, because the number of micro States here is super as low as compared to this one, so this is what they were pointing out.
Eugenio Bianchi: yeah I think i'm trying to disentangle the fact that there are three ingredients and I want to understand which one is essential, one is the statement that the spectrum of the areas discreet.
Eugenio Bianchi: The second is that.
Eugenio Bianchi: If you take a bonding area and you count how many states that are in that band the we know it's a huge number.
Eugenio Bianchi: it's exponentially large with the mass square on the record.
Eugenio Bianchi: And it seems to me that if one news is only destroying the radiance then one cannot reach yet your conclusion, you need that third ingredient that yes, these.
Eugenio Bianchi: huge number of micro states are organized in bands that are gap as it's in the speech area, and I want to understand if one really needs this third ingredient for the East gaps that are blank and separated or lance with gaps in between is this necessary for your conclusion.
Eugenio Bianchi: In.
Eugenio Bianchi: Your reviewed the fact that the na for the political spectrum euro quantum gravity one sees this bands, but also at large mass they are difficult to see so I wanted to understand how important are these months for the prediction.
Adrian del Rio: Would you be in the loop on the gravity owning you know what the reality or in Vegas.
Eugenio Bianchi: So in Vegas in a in a sentence bacon.
Eugenio Bianchi: bacon CMO care of the address assuming that there are response.
Adrian del Rio: yeah exactly, so there is no it's not so it's.
Adrian del Rio: telling me the proposal.
Eugenio Bianchi: You know.
Adrian del Rio: It predicts what it predicts is just a discrete in uniform uniform experience was for the quantum gravity provides much more the days of the Microsoft microscopic stripped.
Adrian del Rio: So I assuming that you're referring to quantum gravity, so this picture here is this word yeah so how important is the deterrence expect that I would say is important because.
Adrian del Rio: Precisely if you suppose you are, you have a black hole in these micro state if the body stops over incident grids and a wave it looks that it's more likely to jump.
Adrian del Rio: To this, you can think of these as a priority of social distribution.
Adrian del Rio: directly, this is, I mean it's, this is the the I mean I mentioned all these I focus on the entropy but I will regard this as appropriate distribution, so if.
Adrian del Rio: The blackboard receives gravitational wave and the black hole would need to be excited to a black radio with this value.
Adrian del Rio: The purity of absorption maybe it's not completely zero but is much smaller than the priority of observing a black hole, so you and I are gonna be some way so that it's area jumps to the spark, so I would say this is important to.
Adrian del Rio: To to this is the perfect so this the degeneracy spectrum, the number of NATO states that the chassis is important to.
Adrian del Rio: give you another the skepticism scaling the proud.
Adrian del Rio: And thinking of this as separate needs to be so.
Adrian del Rio: I prefer to think in terms of the entropy because if the black hole.
Adrian del Rio: So the interview is a lower even essentially the lower if you have a piece right so.
Adrian del Rio: If the if if you didn't have this particular structure does even have this status structure in the enterprise.
Adrian del Rio: This is telling you that if you have a black hole suppose with 66 value of the area.
Adrian del Rio: Supposedly there's anything that goes into our web.
Adrian del Rio: If they're going to say no, there isn't a way doesn't make the black hole to reach this value of area.
Adrian del Rio: This picture is telling you that it's entropy with an increase, but if the entropy is not increasing, I mean the process is reversible so it means that the outsourcing is not effective, so how is this i'm not sure if I say is this answering your question.
Eugenio Bianchi: yeah yeah yeah yeah that sounds really my question is so just so make sure that sending get is the statement that the the staircase structure survives at large mass.
Eugenio Bianchi: With the gap or read the steps being always blank here.
Adrian del Rio: yeah yeah that's why the statements I mean in baseball do them find it, at least for now, rather than black holes, but the sentiment is, if you define them for rotating black holes that will be really interesting because precisely this is step I maybe I didn't say.
Adrian del Rio: But this is some sort of the order of blanks here, so this is the somehow the plan skill sets are that we need.
Adrian del Rio: To get the frequency in the frequency window of grandmother's home from the parameters, so he has the importance of these micro sets is so.
Adrian del Rio: The number of Michael the block of intimacy spectrum is important to calculate the entropy and to infer if there is indeed this staircase structure, because this means that the process will not be irreversible unless.
Adrian del Rio: So the entropy will not increase so if.
Eugenio Bianchi: Thank you, thank you, thank you, that answers my question.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: yeah So if I miss so i'm so the basically I think what you said already, but just for further different way of saying it is that I mean a priori one would say that.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: backend Stein will kind of phenomena occurs, precisely because there is this, you know the area is contest in like a simple harmonic oscillator and the usual argument would be that, I mean that many people argue against Carlo gave us this reference so.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: That, in fact, the eigenvalues crowd exponentially and therefore the spectrum is really nearly continuous and, therefore, what do not have any of these constraints of the type that.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: portal command had, for example, given the beginning, but the statement would be that if you can take into account the degeneracy, then the almost continuous spectrum.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: almost continuous nature of the spectrum men are irrelevant.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: If there's a big if the statement if the steps of this kind survive, then the most of the probability of jump would it be from one week to the other peak.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: And therefore, for all practical purposes, it looks like the.
Adrian del Rio: as well.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: What what what is happening with it, they can stand well, I think that that's the idea.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Now, therefore, if in fact for large angular momentum and particularly for this magical number angular momentum Point seven a.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Something like you know something like this happens is is is a question that one is asking, I personally am very skeptical but on the other hand, I think this is worth well well worth you know pursuing in and.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: finding out what happens.
Adrian del Rio: yeah I wanted to just at least pose a problem to let you know that, in principle, I mean yeah it might be that we don't get that I mean the funny thing is that we want for anything is that.
Adrian del Rio: The biggest thing, so this effective uniform distribution appears in the microscopic at the microscopic level and not at the semi classical limit.
Adrian del Rio: And precisely the biggest thing we're going to use the other way around you expect this at the semi classical for semi classical black hole because you are, you know, there is like the wk be approximation in quantum mechanics that you know because i'm using these.
Adrian del Rio: arguments from the old quantum theory is summer film quantization and which is just to buy in the context of semi classical quantum mechanics.
Adrian del Rio: So he is funny because it seems that, when the gravity this area beta proposal is able to reproduce this but, at the microscopic level and not that the semi classical him and but what it is what race.
Wolfgang Wieland: Perhaps a related question.
Wolfgang Wieland: Is it necessary for this this resolved to to show up to assume that the black hole is in an island state of area, so one could imagine.
Wolfgang Wieland: A spread where the quantum state of the black hole is in a superposition of States that belong in different such peaks and then you have.
Wolfgang Wieland: A process where the initial State is in inborn superposition of such peaks and the final State is in is in another superposition of such peaks, each of which represent a semi classical geometry to some good approximation so would that.
Wolfgang Wieland: in any way affect your argument or would it not affect.
Adrian del Rio: i'm not sure if I completely understand the point, so you say so let's suppose that we have a black hole the state of the black crisis.
Adrian del Rio: He had it does have a whole different area, but instead we have arena communism, for instance, of these three PICs right.
Adrian del Rio: So you see you asking if this will have fun my logical implications is is the question.
Wolfgang Wieland: Yes, and where did.
Wolfgang Wieland: yeah basically, that is.
Adrian del Rio: liquid yeah I mean in.
Wolfgang Wieland: Other words is a is there a good reason to think that astrophysical black hole is in a state of area.
Adrian del Rio: In baseball I mean if it is isolated.
Adrian del Rio: classical here tell us that you know I mean I would expect that it is in a in a wonderful set of mass area and i'm rambling vs I respect that, but in any case, even if it is not.
Adrian del Rio: That is okay, I mean, but the point is that is what this is only for microscopic area pants so I don't I don't get this, at least for microscopy bodies this linear combination would be so how.
Adrian del Rio: They formulated or something so it's not.
Wolfgang Wieland: Okay.
Adrian del Rio: yeah so the yet whenever you have this structure at this blank scale is Dr here i'm sure it will be important program this observation and whether it is at.
Adrian del Rio: stake with relevant area or not.
Adrian del Rio: I mean we can discuss it, but I think both cases would need to have several consequence in parentheses, these are structure these plans kill struct.
Adrian del Rio: and recording it for macroscopic lottie events.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: I think wolfgang's question was really also equally valid for the Pakistan mcanuff.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: quantization OK.
Wolfgang Wieland: Yes, yes.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: OK OK OK, so therefore I think that that in that case his question would be supposing I got the microscopic black hole which is really in in a superposition of Eigen states of area.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Then we'll those absorption arguments that you gave still be valid that in fact that should be.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: In other words.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: If the superposition of areas.
Then.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: I get the incoming gravitational wave and the question is where they just absorbed or not.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Then what happens.
Adrian del Rio: And I right okay.
Adrian del Rio: But but.
Ivan Agullo: So I think what is more important here is the is the mass right because you're talking about that transition seeing the changes in the energy, but the same question could be posed for atomic.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: system exactly.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: yeah exactly exactly.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Exactly, and so the point I thought that she would say exactly and then the statement is that I mean it's not that the every atom is really this.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: I can still have energy all the time right, I mean, but the point is that one could just say that it's going to go to another Oregon state i'm sorry it's going to go to another state.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: And that will depend on supposing I got a state which is superposition of tea I I can states right.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Energy again states and I send a photon and the question is, if in fact.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: There is no against it.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: which has the energy.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: corresponding to the GA three eigenvalues that I currently have plus this.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: Then they figured with the same, then the state federal be that this will be actually reflected there's not a absorb the photon the item will not absorb it.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: So it's just the analysis and little bit more complicated, but on the other hand, the quality phenomena still will be there it's true that the quantitatively, to be more challenging to work it out loud is that what you're saying.
Wolfgang Wieland: And I agree with what you said about this example it's exactly that.
Abhay Vasant Ashtekar: One is that you also agree because.
Ivan Agullo: Yes, please.
Jorge Pullin: Come.
Cong Zhang: Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you for this non stop so I just want to give a comment on this point is that this black hole should have discrete mass.
Cong Zhang: So actually in my current the worker in collaboration with Professor you come on so we use this loop content Cosmo the cosmological techniques to start date the.
Cong Zhang: sra shout the Interior and we also fall into that the operator, corresponding to the black hole Max in the physical Hill, but a space should.
Cong Zhang: have this this create much and the gap of this massive depends on the scheme we use in in this in in in in in this in this mode, but unfortunately we didn't have found the I need relation between our mass CAP with with this given by this weekend stand and malkoff.
Cong Zhang: But.
Adrian del Rio: In principle, I mean one for my price relative crisis in principle classically This is where it is.
Adrian del Rio: same principle, I think this relation crisis, the crisis think.
Adrian del Rio: Well, I don't know the one theory, how you can approach this problem, but this will there's a way to relate the Christ and mass we're assuming that you're providing a quasi local notion of.
Adrian del Rio: Of these quantities at the horizon, but you can find that relation between the heart and mass the area and the angular momentum.
Adrian del Rio: i'm not sure if you can find this place and perhaps inspired by these.
Adrian del Rio: methods.
Cong Zhang: So yeah our work, we started this backdrop of this mass operator and try to also try to relate it to this this capital get this mask up.
Cong Zhang: With them be this era gap, or even by Luke quantum prosper look quantum gravity, that is, seems like there is yeah because here we started the show actually share the keys, so the angular momentum is just that they are oh.
Adrian del Rio: yeah but.
Cong Zhang: It seems like there is no relation between this mask APP and it is Erica yeah but but they're there they're still this discrete myself this massey.
Cong Zhang: yeah so.
Adrian del Rio: You mean that within this area obey the bossa.
Cong Zhang: Yes, yes, yes.
Cong Zhang: Yes, okay.
Cong Zhang: yeah yeah yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
Cong Zhang: Okay Okay, thank you, thank you.
Jorge Pullin: For questions.
Jorge Pullin: Okay let's thank the speaker again.
Adrian del Rio: Thank you.